BizTok Podcast Transcription
Ep.40 Rob Cancilla
Kyle Kaplanis: 0:00
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to BizTok. It is your host Kyle Kaplanis. In the studio today, I have Rob Cancilla. You've probably seen him over on TikTok with his 142,000 followers. Rob is helping people get hired faster because he's giving tips on resume building LinkedIn, job search. He's a recruiter by day entrepreneur by night, LinkedIn expert, resume writer. Rob, welcome to BizTok.
Rob Cancilla: 0:27
Awesome. Thanks for having me. I'm excited about this. I know we've been talking awhile, but doing this. It's great to finally get together.
Kyle Kaplanis: 0:32
What's cool about TikTok , and also my podcast is you're able to get connected. people think professional setting LinkedIn is the go-to to be connected with people. They might not think TikTok could be as well, but it really is. On my podcast a few episodes ago. I had Brendan Gahan, I asked him, Hey, Brendan, who's some of your favorite creators and you mentioned you. Prior to that, you didn't pop up on my, for you page. There's millions of creators on there. I was able to find you on there, and I was like, man, Rob is doing some awesome stuff over here. I have to have him on so I reached out. I love that aspect of TikTok of being a place to connect professionally.
Rob Cancilla: 1:08
Think that's evolved. I was a consumer probably nine months ago, but really got serious, content creating, six months ago. And honestly, when I first started, people were like, Wait, there's resume stuff on TikTok, right? People were like, this is not what I'm here for , but I'll take it. I've seen it evolve a lot over the last six to nine months of entrepreneurship and job search tips and just delving more into the business side of the world, if you will. And like you said, that the lines are getting blurred between LinkedIn and the other platforms pretty quick.
Kyle Kaplanis: 1:31
absolutely. You got into it about nine months ago consuming, but what even brought you there, the first place to consume.
Rob Cancilla: 1:39
I've always been a fan of video and I know that sounds cliché, but like I went to film school 20 years ago. I thought I was gonna be Martin Scorsese, and I quickly learned that I wasn't going to be Martin Scorsese, but like video was always a passion of mine. Didn't do much within my career, landed at an early stage startup maybe seven years ago and helping brands scale video, when, YouTube was taken off, Instagram, vine was the thing. So it was really helping brands try to figure out how to come up with a content strategy. I really got hooked on it at that point. Again, never did anything on my own. And so I saw this huge opportunity with TikTok and a product that I had started. Ultimately, the product didn't work out, but I was targeting a young audience. It was a video based product. It was actually video resumes. I was like, this is the perfect audience to talk and test this product with. But like all the brands I've ever advised, I was like, you have to add value. You can't just be talking about your product. You can't just talk about your thing. So I expanded my content to just be , Video resumes, but also here's all these grassroots foundational job search tips. And that just took off and the video resume thing didn't work out and that's totally fine, but this job search career coaching, whatever you want to call, it just took off.
Kyle Kaplanis: 2:38
Where you really shocked to see it take takeoff where you thinking it was just gonna be this really slow trickle.
Rob Cancilla: 2:43
Yeah. The first video to hit a million views, my first million views, I have a few, but my first one literally was I had a cadence where I was posting every day and that was my goal. I was like, I'm going to push myself for 60 days, I'm gonna post every day. That can be difficult sometimes I have a day job, I have a family. So I was like, I need to post a video. I'm like, all right, I don't have anything today. And somebody was like, Hey, can you review my resume? And I was like Oh, I'll just do a video. It took me 15 minutes. It was my first resume review video that I did, which I'm known for. And it got a million views and I was like, the production value is awful. It took me 10 minutes to make, and it was, and the reason why I made it was because I had to insert a video. That net kind of started to take off. And then from that point on a couple of different things that I did really stuck and it grew pretty fast.
Kyle Kaplanis: 3:25
Going through people's resumes is so key . A lot of people are getting ton of value from it. Like you said, value is so key building your personal brand. You have to bring something you can't just keep talking about all the things you offer. Nobody cares like at the end of the day, didn't even give a shit. So they got to see you got to give them something back. When you do, then they're going to care. I love what you said to, you put this video out the there and the production wasn't good. It was just basic. Took you 15 minutes. That's what I love about TikTok. It's just being raw, real and authentic. So many people overthink it. Like you said Aw, man, I got to make all these videos, but it can really be that simple and value can just be you saying a quick message to your audience. In the past with YouTube and Instagram, We're so conditioned that it has to be this picture perfect.
Rob Cancilla: 4:07
It's the thing that held me back from YouTube for so long, whether there was other content ideas that I had, but like the YouTube part was just such a heavy lift. And I think, eventually I'll get there as a supplement channel in whatever, but I agree with you, especially when you're starting out to have that kind of lo-fi production be valuable. And a lot of ways I look at some content creators that have really low production value. And they're great textbook cases of it doesn't matter. I know a ton of content creators, 100,000 followers, and even some of their videos, I'm like, Oh, you should really do something about the lighting. And my lighting's not good, but I'm saying like, sometimes feel it, but it doesn't matter. The content is great.
Kyle Kaplanis: 4:39
Exactly. No, and that's, what's key to like your content. Don't overthink it. If you have some good value to bring, come to TikTok , and you can adjust as you go. In the beginning, it's fine. If you don't have the greatest lighting. As you grow, you can develop and add those things in. Lighting is such a key aspect though it really is. That does drive me nuts. Sometimes I see some videos. I'm like, man, this is good, but if your lighting was just even a little bit better, that video probably would have been tons better.
Rob Cancilla: 5:04
That was the only investment I made. I asked for, it was an anniversary gift. I got a ring light for an anniversary, a hundred bucks on Amazon. And that was really the only investment I made for six months. Honestly, I got to 80,000 followers with an iPhone eight using the selfie camera. So if someone tells you needed, yes, lighting, I think is probably the one thing you should probably invest in, but beyond that. But even investing in lighting can be just setting up a really good spot in front of a window where, the sun is good on this the time of the day. And that's when you're going to shoot there. That's the investment, the investment is time.
Kyle Kaplanis: 5:30
No, for sure. A hundred percent. You think of YouTube and it's so daunting. Oh my gosh, I need a DSLR camera, I need a studio space, I need green screens, I need an editor team. . TikTok is bringing more people to be able to create video. So many people have been held back and they do have a ton of value to bring. Like you said, value is the number one thing . As you're talking about LinkedIn building A lot of people looking for work with their resumes. Do you think TikTok is something that people should be doing for building their personal brand? Do you think it's a good element there?
Rob Cancilla: 6:01
I do. And especially cause you said like personal brand, and I think it's good for CPG companies and other brands as well. But I think from a personal brand perspective, to your point about the low production value, it's so easy. Gary Vee has been talking about for years about just pulling out your camera and talking to the camera. I think TikTok just gave us the microphone and a lens to do that in a way that we hadn't seen before. Where you could be vulnerable, you could say ums and AHS, you could make mistakes, you could do all of these things, and it was okay. It actually is what people wanted to see. I think that just opened up the door. . I would say if you're trying to build a personal brand right now, and you're not thinking about TikTok you're drastically making a mistake. You could have another strategy, but if TikTok is not part of your strategy I think that it's a huge mistake today.
Kyle Kaplanis: 6:42
That's awesome. I'm also on LinkedIn. I talk to a lot of people on there and it's funny how, when you bring up TikTok, , it's not even 50 50 at this point, it's still like 30, 70 that the 70% are like, "Why should I come to TikTok?" This is no way, no way.
Rob Cancilla: 6:57
And those people are gonna be the ones that are going to look back and be like, I missed out like I missed out on Instagram. I agree with you. I haven't done a lot of LinkedIn content. I've been so focused on TikTok, but it makes sense. I'll be investing in LinkedIn, time wise and content wise. I have a lot of friends that were like, "You're 42 years old, you're on TikTok, what are you doing?" I kind of expected that, so I walked into it knowing , I'm going to get some pushback here, criticism. The reality is it doesn't matter. Yeah. Doesn't matter at all.
Kyle Kaplanis: 7:25
Do you think in the future that employers will be wanting to look for people on there and just seeing what kind of
Rob Cancilla: 7:31
I've seen it already happen! One I've seen people posting jobs. There'll be like, Hey, I'm hiring for this role. You can DM me, you can find me on LinkedIn. So there's like that side of it. I've seen a bunch of people, a bunch of meeting like handfuls, but I've seen videos where people were like, somebody found me on TikTok and is now asking me if I'll come in, and do an interview. One was a teacher, one was a designer. So yeah, it happens.
Kyle Kaplanis: 7:52
That's so cool because Tik TOK is so authentic, you can see somebody a lot more clear. If they're fun or you can their skillsets or the value that they bring. You're like, man, I've got to have this person. With PRJT Z , we house some of the top TikTok talent. We were looking for an intern and I did it more TikTok based. I'm like, Hey, make me a TikTok and tell me why you want to work for us. That was really fun because I needed to see somebody's creativity and it fit well that's what we do. I think it would be really cool to do the stitch feature. Stitch this, tell me why you want to work for us. And it would just be more fun to me if I was looking for a job and somebody came on TikTok, and was like, Hey, we're hiring stich this. I'd be like , that's somebody I want to work for. They're relevant, they're fun, they're using it in a cool way. That'll be a fun place.
Rob Cancilla: 8:33
Thought about doing like a quick, like one minute duet. Where you ask a question, you get an answer. You would almost do the minute would be kind of hard. I've been telling you, my content is educational content, but I try to sneak in some entertainment occasionally almost like puns on interviewing. I've actually been thinking about doing like a mock interview kind of funny one. but I was thinking you can , get tell me about yourself and tell me about your strengths part of the interview.
Kyle Kaplanis: 8:53
That is such a great idea. I would love to see that. A lot of times when I have guests on my show, I get tons of ideas just because you're collaborating , on fun ways, but you could use that in all sorts of things to talk to your audience. If you're a brand, you can say, Hey. What is something , in your household that you use every single day? So you can get a lot of feedback from people, but in fun ways and get audience involved. So that just brought up tons of ideas for me, even for some content for future.
Rob Cancilla: 9:17
I talk to brands a lot. I'm a recruiter by day. I recruit a lot of marketers, that's my specialty. CMO vice president marketing for venture capital backed companies. high growth companies, you would think innovative folks, people are still really intimidated by TikTok. From a brand perspective. I'll sneak in my content, if you will, around the conversation, I'll be like, Oh yeah, I'm at a 140,000 followers and be like, "wait, what?" Their perception is that it's still just the dancing videos, still just teenagers. And again, I'm 42 years old, I'm a recruiter, I'm giving job search tips. My target audience is young, but I don't get people like, Oh, you're the old guy. I sometimes feel that way, but I don't get that when I'm on the app.
Kyle Kaplanis: 9:53
Rob Cancilla: 9:54
Marketers are still, I think is trying to figure out what they want to do, and the classic mistake I think is they're overthinking it.
Kyle Kaplanis: 10:00
Rob your preaching to the choirs because literally all I do, is I talk to brand advertisers who are social media buying these are brands that are buying social media advertisement. My number one thing that we do at PRJT Z is not selling right away. It is a straight education. I'm like, educate, educate, educate, because these brands are like, okay, wait, what do you mean I can bring this brand over there? are you sure? People are still lip-syncing and dancing. I'm like, when have you logged on , please get on and consume so you can see. Cause so many people are shocked and they get on there. They're like, Oh, this isn't what I expected. I'm like, I know it's changed. It's evolved really quickly in the last few months, like you, you mentioned.
Rob Cancilla: 10:35
I try to educate people from a consumer's perspective too, is like the algorithm to me is really, really, really good. It's curating. I don't watch a lot of dancing videos. So as a result of that, I don't get that. I get a lot of entrepreneurship. I get a lot of tech. The stuff that I really want to go to. Just like YouTube's feed. When I land on my, for you page, man, it's curated to , what I want to see. I think that's also important. I think, again, people just have this perception of the dancing videos, you and I come from the same background. I helped brands to try to scale video. I worked at Facebook. I was trying to get brands to , not put their TV commercials in the newsfeed. I get it in that sense, I think a lot of people are gonna look back and say, man, I wish in 2020, I had invested whether they're personal brands or big brands are gonna look back and say, I might've missed not a complete window, but I missed that early window on TikTok.
Kyle Kaplanis: 11:17
Absolutely. I even say that myself too, because I still remember looking back being on Facebook and seeing some people sharing Jenna marbles on YouTube back in the day on her first videos. I was like, man, she's so funny. What is this YouTube thing? It was still fresh. I wasn't even really watching on there, but I couldn't even imagine just getting on there early. You didn't even have to be that good. It's like on TikTok too as long as you bring value that there's no level . Do I think that people will start using higher quality . Yes. I do think it will shift just like YouTube did eventually, but right now there's no limit and people who are missing out are going to come in at those higher quality levels where you have to work even harder. I tell people that too. my daughter has 2 million followers on the platform.
Rob Cancilla: 11:58
Yeah. I heard that in the podcast with Brendan, I heard that I was like, wait, what?
Kyle Kaplanis: 12:01
We're really fortunate because to be honest, she blew up from dancing, but she was one of the first people on the app dancing. If she was coming now, There's a thousands, thousands of dancers, good luck. It's a needle in the haystack. So she got really lucky because she was early. Do I think she's special? Heck yeah. She has a shit ton of talent. She's a great dancer. She's a great singer. She's got a great personality, but if she were to come in now, which he really stood out, maybe. It'd be really hard.
Rob Cancilla: 12:26
It's a saturated market now.
Kyle Kaplanis: 12:27
Exactly. For marketers perspective, people coming in with some value to talk about business, it's still that ground level. You still have tons of opportunity, like a ton.
Rob Cancilla: 12:38
There's so many niches still like that have not been tapped into if I can see, , if there's so many people on LinkedIn that are somewhat in the content space and if they leaned in and took their content over to TikTok, it's amazing. It'll be interesting to see. I've already seen in the career space, I'm fortunate that we've got a little pocket community, probably about a dozen of us that are very similar with different backgrounds. We talk about job search and career stuff, and we've banded together, which is also something I didn't expect. Being part of the broader TikTok community is awesome, but then there's this sub community. And for the most part, really supportive, helping each other along. We're doing clubhouses together, we're doing podcasts together. It's super cool to see. That was something I didn't realize when I got into this, what that was going to bring, and it's been extremely rewarding.
Kyle Kaplanis: 13:17
I was going to mention clubhouse , when I got on there, I realized, wow, people are so supportive. Even if you're in the same thing, you're competing . Gary Vee he even says this as well. He says, you're in a competitive niche and you're afraid because it's oversaturated and he's like, so what, come bring your value because the way you say it might be different and you're going to reach other people. But he also said, Oh cool, so there's other people like me. Do people just choose to follow me? Are they like, my quota is filled with who I follow. I'm only following Gary. They're going to follow all of us because that's something that's very exciting to them. And they're going to learn from each of us. Just because you see there might be 10 people making video content that you want to doesn't mean it's filled up. You're going to have a different voice your going to have a different way of presenting something that somebody might find more interesting than others.
Rob Cancilla: 14:03
I think we overestimate how people respond to you personally. How you interact with your point. You may say it a different way. I think that's worked well for me is my style and people say , I love the way you present and I love the way you think about it. I think there's so much flexibility on TikTok. There was a while where I was doing videos with my camera, but I was like shooting my screen. So I was showing LinkedIn stuff or whatever. And , I did that for a long time and that was actually really good for me. Cause it gave me confidence to build up my channel a little bit and I didn't have to be on camera as much as I started. Then I noticed that I looked at my analytics and my views weren't as good when I was on camera. And I was like, what is that? Is that not a good sign? So I kept changing things up , but it was really funny at the beginning. I was really nervous in front of the camera, but I got to start with this idea of shooting the screen, which I watched other content. I learned that from other content creators. I just watched everybody else doing it. I was like, this seems to be working. I'll just try this.
Kyle Kaplanis: 14:50
That's so cool that you say that they look back in your videos that where you weren't there were as good. Right? That's what you've said? I had a lady on my show, Bonnie Strominger who she does a go lids account. And she talks about her product a lot. Her videos do well because. The product is really cool. It's a really innovative product. But the thing is people like the video or they'll view it, but they don't follow. I said, Bonnie, you know, why is because you're in your videos 1% of the time. Sure. How can people be attached to a product? They don't like it unless it's bringing a lot of value, but if they don't have that product in their hand and it's changed their life, they're not going to follow it. They're going like, Oh, that's cool. Next. I said, you have to be in there because people connect to a person. We connect to a face, we connect to the person behind that voice. I think people are a afraid to get in there, but it's okay to start how you did, and build that confidence. So if you're listening to this right now and you're like, okay, Rob and Kyle you've really convinced me to start making an account and start plugging away. It's okay to start out different. It's okay to start off with not being in it as much, just start somewhere. Then you will get that confidence. I'm telling you it's not as scary as you think. People are actually pretty nice. I haven't had anybody message me and be , Kyle you're ugly, get off camera. Nobody's ever said that.
Rob Cancilla: 16:03
It's just the classic example of me getting in my own head. I was looking at the analytics and I even did a funny video about it. I was like, Hey guys, what's going on here? And I pointed to my green screen on my account. And I was like, all of these, I'm not on camera, and then when I'm on, it's 10% of the views. Like anything though, I think it takes practice. I have 330 videos in six months. And now today I can tell you that I'm fairly confident and still need to work on it. That's the other thing you got to commit to the long-term I think, , you're not going to create three videos and it's going to blow up and , maybe it will, but it's not sustainable. I think you just got to give it 60 days is what I tell people. If you can do 60 days, post four to five times a week. And then make an evaluation of , is this working. 20 bucks says it will, but you can assess for yourself. . Kyle Kaplanis: No, it definitely will. You start building a small community and I think faster than other social platforms, maybe LinkedIn is a little different, cause it's all about connecting. So you're expected to come there and connect with people if you use it correctly, but TikTok, you can actually build that community and get valuable feedback really fast . The coolest thing is you can get feedback quickly. Instantaneously people are willing to comment and it's just so it's so powerful. The personalization too. The video response feature to me was like an aha moment for TikTok, and how I thought about TikTok. I was like, wait a minute, somebody can ask me a question and then I can literally create one more content. This just fuels ideas. The first big compliment that I got on TikTok was because I did this video response for this person and took a few minutes out of my day to give a one to one. Then at the same time, give value for a mass of people. I was like, this is just a game changer. That's something you don't see on Instagram. You can't get that same one-to-one. You can comment back, but it doesn't feel as genuine as somebody being like, I'm going to whip out my camera and I'm going to look you in the eyes and answer your question.
Kyle Kaplanis: 17:45
Exactly. When I saw that feature, I was like, you guys just change the game of social media. Even Facebook doesn't have that. Nobody. Whoever, sit down in our table and was like, we need to add this. That person is genius. I hope that they're getting paid a shit ton of money because they deserve it.
Rob Cancilla: 17:59
Yeah. And you know there's someone it's like, that's not scalable. Somebody who's a naysayer. That's not going to work. He's like, trust me. It's going to work.
Kyle Kaplanis: 18:06
It is way more personal. People crave being noticed. As a human being, we all crave being noticed. That's why Starbucks has always said, remember the customer's name, remember the name. Just because being noticed and being remembered is key to our human element. TikTok Is the same way people are going to comment more thinking, man, Rob does a lot of reply to comments. Maybe he'll reply to me one day. And that's the same with really big creators out there that do reply to comments. They do really well. Cause somebody is like, maybe I can get noticed too. I love that it creates more content. Sometimes you're stuck and somebody just asked a great question in your comments. You're like, boom, I can make a video straight from this. So easy.
Rob Cancilla: 18:45
My third week in when someone wanted help with their LinkedIn headline and then for a week, that's all I did was respond to people's comments and say, here's how you can improve your LinkedIn headline. When I was stuck in a rut of , what am I going to do? , what am I going to create? All I was doing was one-to-one videos essentially. And creating that value. But the key was the one-to-one, but value for the masses. Cause people were like, Oh, I went up to my LinkedIn headline, but I don't want my profile on video, so I'll just keep watching, Rob do it to other people. That's the other thing about TikTok I think , is that personal and mass communication into one video is super interesting.
Kyle Kaplanis: 19:18
I think that's really important. Some people don't do that, but I think that's really key because then people can learn from that video as well. It's not just geared to that one person. They're like, great. This was a waste because it was only for that one person. My last podcast, guests was law by Mike. I'm not sure if you've seen that. He's awesome. Fricking awesome. Him and his manager, Sebastian Paredes. They talked about that the most important thing on TikTok for content, which is really true. Is your content needs to be either educational, inspiring, or entertaining. And if you can get all three. You're guaranteed viral success. A lot of people overthink it, but it's really that simple. Your videos are good. People are learning, but it's entertaining. You're charismatic guy, you have a lot of energy. It's inspiring because they're learning something that they can do for themselves. You get a lot of those elements and I think that's why you've had a lot of success with some of your videos and some of them reaching, 1 million view videos, which is awesome.
Rob Cancilla: 20:15
I appreciate it. I think when you start is leaning in on one of those, right? For me it was, I'm going to lean in on education and , not comfortable, but like the entertainment part came later on, but I think you're right. If you can grab two out of three, you're in a good place. I'd be curious. Was he doing content before TikTok? Because he's really good.
Kyle Kaplanis: 20:31
Their story is interesting. If you go back and listen. I wrote a piece of their strategy of how they did it, I wrote it on LinkedIn. Yeah, you should definitely check it out, but they studied the platform and they realize, okay, transitions were good. You got to catch somebody's attention right away. Sebastian has a social media background, so he was like, you be the face cause you're the lawyer let me help you do all these things. Their strategy was that they wanted to create 12 videos, which they prerecorded, made sure that they were really good. They say that cutting out the fat is really key. Meaning everything you say, if there's something in there, that's not necessarily to cut it out. They said that they tried four different times to get some viral success. They said that the algorithm is really geared to pushing people who get viral success in the beginning, because it looks like you're known for social currency and you know what you're doing, and you're going to continue to support the masses. They had to delete their account four times and start over until they got, one of those and they took off. To be honest, , is that strategy going to work for everybody? No, but I really do think that there's some truth to what they did.
Rob Cancilla: 21:35
That's a pretty robust strategy that they've put together, but I do agree. He's a good example of blurring. Some of his videos are a little bit lower production. A lot of them are higher production. You can tell they're really crafted. Well, the transitions are absolutely phenomenal on his videos. I've started just doing even smaller transitions and lots of trimming of the fat. I will shoot a video. And you know, this term, but a lot of jump cuts and they certainly help the more jump cuts I have the video watch time certainly goes up. I've also found you really need to mix it up. You need to be doing 10, second videos, 15 second videos, 30 seconds and six. You need to, you can't just be doing all fifteens. You can't be doing all sixties. You've gotta mix it up. I find using all the features does help. You throw in a duet once a week, it certainly helps your channel definitely helps the video. All of those things that you hear all the time and we've heard for other channels, I think still applied, to TikTok and you got to, play around with it and figure out what works for you.
Kyle Kaplanis: 22:23
Yeah, you do. All of us would different strategy. Maybe some of them might be similar. The thing is we're all different and we all bring different value. You got to just try it for yourself. You might grow slower than others. You might grow really fast. At the end of the day, I think we all have the same level playing field. A lot of times you do, you just have to learn. So you have to think, okay, this video didn't work so well, why? maybe try it again there, try it a few times. It might work. Like you were saying, you're 300 videos in and you're still learning. You've improved just like all of us will. For the first 60 days to at least try to make a video and duets are really good part of this strategy. They're simple . What I find is if you can bring some sort of value, even if it's just like a statement to put words in , This was good. Those do so well, , duets, they're so easy. They're really important. Just throw one in a week to help your views.
Rob Cancilla: 23:11
I try to do it once a week. Because the algorithm definitely pushes them out to the, for you page faster than your other videos, just to test them. You'll get out there real quick and they'll give them a quick test. I think people also like them, I think , Thumb stopping content. I think when people see duets, it gives them that half a second of , wait, what is this? Somebody else wants to share something, then I should probably give it a moment.
Kyle Kaplanis: 23:28
No, for sure.
Rob Cancilla: 23:29
I think that's important. The TikTok and learning. Back to the production part, you can test and learn so much faster. If I do a YouTube video, it's high production, it doesn't do well. Yes. I learned something from it, but I probably invested a lot more time. So TikTok has been a great training ground for me because I got the training wheels off and figure out what works for me personally as a brand. So then when I do go to YouTube or I go to LinkedIn with more video content, then I've already figured out what that looks like.
Kyle Kaplanis: 23:50
Like you said with time, some people might think, Oh, I don't have time, but you could do it quite fast to be honest. There's some videos that take me way more time, and there's some videos that, like right before jumping on this podcast, I had 10 minutes and I had something on my mind. Let me quickly say this , make a video. I didn't post it yet, but I put it in my drafts. It took me five minutes. It could be that simple. The number one thing that I think holds people back is overthinking.
Rob Cancilla: 24:13
I totally agree. I think the other one is, and you brought it up, that was a good reminder , is looking at other content creators. I've even gotten into places where I'm like, why is this account growing faster than mine? And compare yourself to other people it's good to absorb other content and learn, but you really have to not compare yourself. You really have to focus on the content that you're doing. It's sometimes hard for me to do it. If you can focus on what you're doing and your growth individually and not get in your own way and not overthinking it, as you said. your whole experience will be a lot better.
Kyle Kaplanis: 24:39
Sometimes somebody let's say they have more followers, but at the end of the day, if you sat down and put your accounts together, they could have had one video in the past that just killed it and got 20 million views and they gained a bunch of followers, but those followers are inactive now. Are they better? Maybe not. Right. Don't look at the vanity metrics, just show up, bring your value because nobody can do anything like you can right? so the value you have nobody's experienced it. You're going to reach a different level. You're going to have your audience and just focus on yourself, build that community, talk with your audience . I'm sure that's probably a huge part of your strategy is engaging with your followers.
Rob Cancilla: 25:14
Oh, yeah. I try to comment as much as I possibly can. I get a ridiculous amount of DMS of resume questions and interviewing questions. I didn't offer a single service. Except for doing the free resume reviews that I do, but I didn't offer any of my services and I was a resume writer for a couple of years. I didn't put anything on TikTok until it got to a point where there was so much demand that I was like, all right, , I'll put a link tree together and I'll put something out there. I think four to five months, I didn't ever say to anybody come to me. I think I mentioned I was a resume writer, like in my videos. Cause I was trying to share knowledge. But it got to a point where I had added enough value that I'd built up the trust that people started coming to me and me like, Hey, do you do this? Hey, can you help me with this? I'll pay you to do this. I was like, perfect. You can't force him a business or forcing merchant buyer due to that too fast. You have to build that trust. That takes time. And I think that's where most people drop off is it takes time to do that. Then you can start asking.
Kyle Kaplanis: 26:06
Marketers listening salespeople or anything like that. This is a true Testament. That TikTok is so great because you're bringing that human element that people can build trust to you and they see your value. They're going to beg you. I've talked to a lot of people on my podcast that have so much success from people coming to them saying, Oh my gosh, I need what you have. What do you have? They're willing to give you money and they have no idea if you have services. That is what brands or businesses would dream to have is people begging them for something that they don't even know that they even offer. So you've been able to monetize now because of TikTok?
Rob Cancilla: 26:40
Yeah, I was doing resume writing and resumed LinkedIn writing. I kind of done that on the side. it was part of the video resume platform. I was helping build out as well. Right before this, I was just doing a one hour coaching session with somebody in Canada and helping her with her interview. She's got two interviews coming up and doing that. I just released a product where. If you have a question and you need an answer for something for an interviewer and you need it right away. I'll send you a video response, not on TikTok, but I'll send you a video response and it's like 10 bucks. If you're like, I'm walking into an interview, I need this right away. You need to have that one-to-one. So I built like a bunch of different products and I'm continuing to expand them. I haven't figured out a name for it yet, but basically like a light touch coaching where I'm available by text message and email. So you don't have to pay for a career coach that's formal, right? If you just need somebody on the side that you can reach out to at any given moment. I'm trying all these different products to see what sticks, but a lot of them came from my followers. They're like, can you send me a video of how I should answer this question?
Kyle Kaplanis: 27:30
Yeah, the other small businesses I've talked to. They've also said the same thing is their audiences almost give them an innovation idea. To be honest, you'll probably get more of that. You'll start a product and you'll be able to expand it into something even bigger because your audience is going to give you that feedback, which on other social media, like Instagram , it takes you so long to build that. You're building something that people don't care about, and you have no idea cause you're not getting that feedback. Whereas on TikTok it's so quick. They're like, Hey Rob, can you do this? And you're like, boom idea. Versus you just like thinking what people want, but you have no idea really what they want, but your audience is now telling you, Rob I need this. And you're like, I'm building something for you.
Rob Cancilla: 28:09
I never used to do reviews. I used to just rewrite somebody's resume. And I think sometimes somebody just wants to have somebody that's a professional that looks at resumes every day. Just look at my resume, tell me , is there a couple of things I can make to make it better? And all of a sudden I was like, this is low-hanging fruit. It takes me a very little amount of time. Right. It has a lot of value, so sure. I can do that. And I, all of a sudden just started doing that as well. So yeah, you're right. the ideas just kept flowing in and they keep flowing in and we'll see where it goes next year.
Kyle Kaplanis: 28:34
I hear you. Same with me. I'm sitting here everyday with all these new ideas and I think my business will eventually evolve into something really large too. Without TikTok, I would not be where I am now. TikTok has opened up so much more opportunities for me in many different aspects and I'm just grateful for it. I'm grateful to be this early as well. Brendan shares so many things on LinkedIn about statistics and it's still crazy and shocking to me how advertising dollars is so low on social media. There's still the traditional marketing. That's where most of the money goes. I think TikTok is going to open up more advertising dollars. I can't even imagine in 10, 20 years looking back of where we're going to be, because we were here today at this early stage.
Rob Cancilla: 29:18
I completely agree with you. It has been life changing for me. It was a dream come true. I've always wanted to be in content. I've always wanted to do it. I think there's something else that'd be really interesting to your listeners is a large publisher reached out to me at 5,000 followers. Got some momentum, but not a huge following. And they were like, we love your channel. Would you consider writing a column for us around career advice? They completely reached out to me, again I wasn't offering services, this was something I was doing on the nights and weekends. And this large publisher found me. I think that was also an aha moment for me was one you don't need to have a massive following. It doesn't need to be this big number. To your point it's a vanity metric. If you're adding value and content people will come to you. That was a big tipping point an aha moment for me. I was like, I'm all in.
Kyle Kaplanis: 29:54
Speaking the brand aspect of things brands are exactly like that. They're thinking, what can you do for me? What value can you bring to our company? They don't really care about the followers. At the end of the day. I've had some talent that I've worked with that has had. A third of what, some of the bigger talent I work with yet, they were paid triple the amount of money because their specific content was geared better to what the advertiser was looking for. That's the thing with businesses, brands, or professional accounts you can be reached out to. You don't have to have 142,000, like you said, you could have 5,000. I've talked to a few people who've had good success with 2000 followers just because the right person saw them that were like, Hey, I love what you're doing. And they caught them early, you know? I think in the professional side as well, your standards are a little bit lower because the professional aspect of TikTok is still growing. For traditional TikToker's like the dancers or the younger gen Z it might be a little bit more difficult because it is saturated. But the professional setting, I really do think it's still fresh. I search up hashtags sometimes, and I'm shocked at the amount of views that these hashtags are getting that are so widely, used on places like LinkedIn, or Instagram. It just shows that we really are early when you hit business tips and the hashtag has 2 million views. I'm like, what are you kidding?
Rob Cancilla: 31:16
If you're an entrepreneur right now, or if you're building an app, if you're building any kind of technology or software. I would lean in pretty heavily right now to your point. You don't want to just advertise your product. If I was founding a company right now, I would just go on and do entrepreneur stuff every day. This is what it's really like to build a company every day. Here's the things that I actually have to do. If you're in that seat right now, you could quickly, build up a following.
Kyle Kaplanis: 31:35
I might start doing stuff like that too, because what I'm doing on my brand side, when people , might be interested in seeing what it takes to actually be a brand manager, what do I do behind the scenes?
Rob Cancilla: 31:45
Oh, I totally. I talked to these young professionals, they actually don't know what a lot of jobs are. Cause I'll talk to them like, what do you want to do? And their like, I don't know, because we're not teaching students what marketing does and this is what advertising is and what is the difference? I'm just using that as an example, it could be any kind of industry, but we haven't really mapped out career paths for people. So I think showing people, what does a brand manager do everyday?
Kyle Kaplanis: 32:05
Rob Cancilla: 32:06
I'd be like, let's watch that.
Kyle Kaplanis: 32:09
Before you just read what people do. What are you in accounting? And what does that mean? They give you a different response because they're in it every day. Sometimes it can even be negative , cause they might be sick of it. They might even be sick of the employer. Right. But showing the actual what you do. Somebody might not have thought Oh, I want to be a brand manager. They might never thought of that. But after seeing what it looks like and the things you actually do, they're like, yo, that is actually so cool. That's something I'm really interested to pursue.
Rob Cancilla: 32:34
It's like virtual go to work day. Right? Go see what it's like to actually take your kid to work day. It used to be a thing. Take your friend to work day. And see what it's like to really do something.
Kyle Kaplanis: 32:41
I used to love that show dirty jobs just because yes. Yeah. That would have been cool if he did all sorts of work, but it was really cool to see what people did. I was really curious and people are very curious by nature. Even if that's a job they don't want to do. They're very interested to learn, Oh, I didn't know that's what you do. So yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Is there any final strategies for people that you think are working well?
Rob Cancilla: 33:04
I think at the end of the day, did you really start thinking about building a personal brand? I think whether that's LinkedIn or other social media platforms. If you're a designer, maybe it's dribble or something, there's different platforms that you can jump into. I think like the younger audience needs to start thinking about building up a personal / professional brand. That can come in a variety of different ways. The resume is going to be around for a while and we're probably going to still deal with it. There is a way to create this brand, which is going to give you a lot more opportunities beyond just your education in the last job that you had. I think when people start to lean into that, it really does change how you think about your career and your next job opportunity. I think LinkedIn is probably the best platform right now today for that I'll be very interested. We could have an entire podcast about LinkedIn. I'll be very interested to see where LinkedIn goes in the future. I do think it's very soon going to have The Facebook problem, which is that's my parents' app. New challenges, if you will. I don't think it's going anywhere, but I do think about how you build a personal brand, in a professional way on LinkedIn and a couple of other platforms is super important.
Kyle Kaplanis: 34:00
That's cool that you brought that up . I talked to a lot of creators who are not on LinkedIn and believe it or not is a huge place to be. Because like you said, a lot of the decision makers of these brands, are the older demographic, right? And most of them aren't on TikTok. They might have staff on TikTok . If you can be where they can see you it'll make a huge opportunity. my daughter is on LinkedIn. She was able to grow quite fast on there. She has about 15,000 followers, which is pretty
Rob Cancilla: 34:29
For LinkedIn that's great.
Kyle Kaplanis: 34:30
I talked to a couple of my creators and saying, look, you should get on LinkedIn. They're like, first of all, what's LinkedIn and then they check it out and they're like, you got this wrong. I shouldn't be here. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, you really should. You got to be where the people are that make decisions. I educate a lot of creators to be in that space as well. I I don't think it's going anywhere. There's nothing really, that has , that aspect, like you said.
Rob Cancilla: 34:52
I think what it needs to do is attract a younger audience. And to your point, the education that you're doing, I think is more of what we need to be doing collectively , how do we utilize LinkedIn in a more efficient way? So it's not just a, when I need a job, I go there. It is a resource that we go to on a regular basis. A lot of my contents around educating people on how to build that brand and that platform so it can be that for you and less of just a resume.
Kyle Kaplanis: 35:12
That's how I landed , the head of talent job that I have because of LinkedIn of me using it in more of a content strategy way where it got people to notice me and being like, boy, what is this? All this value that you are bringing, versus just being a profile that are just sitting there. You have to do some work there too . I love to ask because that's how I found you is through Brendan and saying who your favorite creators are. So I'd love to know, who are some of your favorite creators?
Rob Cancilla: 35:38
I just saw your video talking about followers and how many followers you have, by the way I appreciated, I follow over a thousand people. I got to give a shout out. There's certainly some career folks that are out there. Dan from HR modernists, TikTok job tips, career check. These are all folks that are in the, same space I am that are awesome community outside of that, I love this guy. I'm hoping I'm saying his name is Socialty Pro he does SEO content and he does it for small businesses, entrepreneurs. He does a ton of YouTube. He is probably , the person that i favorite the videos the most, because I'm going to create a YouTube channel and there's about 40 videos that you've made that I need to go back to. I like the ginger marketer. I love Mike the lawyer guy. I love, the layman investor. Have you ever watched him? He's awesome. He's somebody that's trying to educate people on how to create side income, side hustles, money on the internet, if you will, in a way that doesn't feel like all of the bad ways that you hear on social media. there's a ton more, I think my biggest downfall of TikTok is that I consume so much of it. I'm on the app a lot, not from a camera perspective, but I like to follow. I like to follow people that bring advice when it comes to entrepreneurship, technology and money that probably the areas that I lean into the most. The algorithm has done a good job serving me up.
Kyle Kaplanis: 36:50
Like my video said, follow people that bring you value. There's a ton of people that just follow people because they think they're going to get followers back. If you're wanting to grow good luck, that's not going to do you any good. There are so many people bringing, such great value on the app. I learn something new every day. I've learned more, because of TikTok than I have in any other platforms. And that's why consuming can be so fun. My brain naturally just hits the TikTok app. As soon as I open my phone, me and my wife joke about all the time, me and her just sitting there. She's like, why did I just open TikTok? I'm just trying to log into the bank.
Rob Cancilla: 37:20
I'm the same way. And then it'll be like one of my resume videos, I'll be in the kitchen, and my wife's , Oh my gosh. Why? Why don't we hear your voice again? Screaming out resume videos.
Kyle Kaplanis: 37:29
Rob Cancilla: 37:30
Oh, sorry. To your point, I'm just trying to go to the bank app. It's just always open.
Kyle Kaplanis: 37:33
Yeah, exactly. It's funny. But I love it. I don't think of it as consuming too much, because I'm learning, I'm educating. It's just fun. It's a great place. I think people should really check it out and give it some time and do that 60 day plan. Like you said, just try it 60 days. Just make a video. To Don't overthink it. Just have fun with it.
Rob Cancilla: 37:53
Totally agree. Just press record.
Kyle Kaplanis: 37:54
Where can people find you? And if they have resume questions or tips, or they want to look into this program that you have, how can they do that?
Rob Cancilla: 38:01
Yeah, so I've got everything on my TikTok channel now. It's Rob_Cancilla. As well on LinkedIn, certainly recommend people follow me on both of those. LinkedIn, I'll be doing a lot more content this year, but, if you have anything on resume, LinkedIn job search, whatever it may be following my TikTok and check out the link in the bio, it has everything there.
Kyle Kaplanis: 38:17
And for those of you listening, I made it even easier for you. All you have to do is hit that description box down below this episode, and you'll find all the clickable links directly to everything that Rob has so you can find it easily. Connect with him. Definitely give him a follow. Puts out some great content. You'll learn value from him all the time. Also, everybody listening the best thing that you can do to help me out as a content creator and giving this podcast is leave a review for me. Give it a like, and share it with some of your friends. Rob, thank you so much for your time today, man. I really appreciate it. I think we talked about some really great things and there's a ton of value for people to learn from today. Thank you.
Rob Cancilla: 38:52
Thanks man. I appreciate it was great to chat with you.
Kyle Kaplanis: 38:54
Definitely see you over on TikTok.
Rob Cancilla: 38:56
See you there.